Growth In Reverse

AUDIO - Lenny Rachitsky Reaches 1M Subscribers on Substack===

[00:00:00] Chenell Basilio: Lenny Rachitsky, he just hit 1 million subscribers. He's like, I don't think anybody's gonna read it, but I'll put it out on Medium. Six years later, he has a million subscribers.

[00:00:09] Dylan Redekop: Newsletters are essentially the new blogs. They're just hitting people's inboxes, right? So you need to stand out, you need to be different.

You need to have content that resonates and that is well written and well researched, and even has a little bit of personality. So you don't sound like you know an AI bot.

[00:00:22] Chenell Basilio: I'm just curious like where this goes from here. Because he's just been steadily growing, like does he hit 2 million in the next year.

All right, so today we are going to talk about, uh, Lenny Rachitsky. Now Lenny is, if you've in the, been in the newsletter space at all for any length of time, you probably know about his newsletter. Lenny's newsletter, uh, he just hit 1 million subscribers and I thought this was fascinating and I kind of wanted to go back and break down some of his growth journey, what he's been doing since I wrote the deep dive on him.

And, uh, yeah, just kind of riff on what we think is the future or [00:01:00] the next steps in his journey. So, uh, Dylan, are you excited for this one? I'm

[00:01:05] Dylan Redekop: excited. I'm excited. I've been following Lenny's from a bit of a distance. I haven't done as much deep dive research as you on him, but um, he kind of came on, married our probably about three-ish years ago, and I think that's kind of when his growth was really accelerating.

So, um, yeah. I'm excited to get into this. Yeah.

[00:01:20] Chenell Basilio: Awesome. So for just a little bit of back background on Lenny, uh, he worked at Airbnb, he was like a product lead Yeah. For seven years. So from 20. 12 until March of 2019 when he left Airbnb. Uh, he was there just working in the product space, making the product better, learned a bunch and was like, you know what, I'm gonna start a newsletter.

'cause he wanted to actually start a different company. Mm-hmm. And he was like, I wanna synthesize like what I've learned and just like share this. He's like, I don't think anybody's gonna read it, but I'll put it out on Medium and uh, medium.com. And see what happens.

[00:01:52] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.

[00:01:53] Chenell Basilio: And now, what was that, six years later?

Yeah, he has a million subscribers and he is one of the top [00:02:00] voices in the newsletter space and just in the product space in general. He's definitely got the world's largest, uh, newsletter on product and growth, so very, very interesting.

[00:02:09] Dylan Redekop: It's, um, it's really impressive and I think he has a quote in one of his posts about hitting one of these big milestones.

He did another one of these when he hit 500,000 subscribers, and I can't remember if it was in this 1,000,001 or the 500,001, but he basically said like. Growth. I've tried everything, like paid ads, this, that, um, and he is like, none of that, none of that really works. Like biz dev, like he's tried all this stuff and he is like paid ads, SEO referrals, um, bd and none of them have done a damn thing.

And so I thought that was really funny and interesting. Uses the term growth levers too. He's like, I've tried 'em all. None of them done a damn thing. And he goes basically to say that word of mouth has been kind of kinda his biggest lover for growth. Which I think you could probably resonate with.

[00:02:50] Chenell Basilio: Well, I actually wrote two deep dives on him because I was so fascinated about the story.

So I published the first one in April of 2023, and then the next one was the following week. That second one I [00:03:00] just focused on the paid newsletter, right? So I was like, how do you even grow one of these things? It's so interesting, uh, and I hadn't really done a deep dive into that, so thought it would be a good time to do that.

So the first one was all just about his growth, and at that time in April, he had. 377,000 subscribers. So that was only a third two years ago right now? Yeah.

[00:03:19] Dylan Redekop: Just shy of two years. Yeah. Okay.

[00:03:20] Chenell Basilio: Pretty wild. That's like some insane growth.

[00:03:23] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, it's nuts. And it's, it's um, it's one of those things where I think just the size of your audience starts to flywheel into your growing because of how big you are.

And that just kind of compounds. But that's not to say that he was just growing because he was already. Big, and we'll get into this a bit more, but I think you, you have to start with a quality product that people, that people enjoy reading that is providing them value, that is consistent and all those sort of things.

So, um, he wouldn't have gotten there if he hadn't been doing those things, those foundational things to begin with. So, um, yeah, that's, that's kind of my, my main takeaway when I was, when I was looking at his story,

[00:03:58] Chenell Basilio: and I think [00:04:00] practically every piece of Lenny's that I've ever read is just, it's good. It's so good, it's so in depth, and he is doing.

We're gonna talk about this again, but he's doing a lot of exclusives as well. Mm-hmm. And in the sense of even just taking data that might be available elsewhere, creating his own charts, synthesizing it differently. Uh, he also goes out and one of his favorite, his things that he does, that's one of my favorites, is he goes out to.

Actual product leads and people working at different companies. Mm-hmm. And actually gathers data from them. So like in the beginning, I remember one of his, uh, early growth levers was a series on how to build a, uh, marketplace.

[00:04:35] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.

[00:04:36] Chenell Basilio: And so, if you're not familiar, marketplace is kind of, well I'm not even super, super sure, but it's something like an Airbnb would be a marketplace.

Um, yeah. 'cause you have both customers and people.

[00:04:46] Dylan Redekop: Buyers and sellers

[00:04:47] Chenell Basilio: listings, uh, buyers and sellers. Yes. That was so much simple. Thank you. Uh, but he did a whole series on them and he went out to these companies and asked them like, how are you growing? What's your biggest growth lover? And he took [00:05:00] all that data and he wrote a whole series of articles.

He said that that was like one of the turning points for his newsletter. I think I actually had a, uh,

[00:05:07] Dylan Redekop: you had a chart.

[00:05:08] Chenell Basilio: A chart, yeah. We'll put that on screen. His growth timeline before that, and then his growth timeline after that. And you can just see it was like chugging along, chugging along, and then those, those articles went live and it was like, yeah, it was like, wow.

Yeah, people really like that. And I think that made him stand out because he wasn't just like writing these thought pieces. He was. Gathering data from other places.

[00:05:28] Dylan Redekop: Absolutely. And that's, um, again, I'm gonna harp on this over and over and over and it's worth harping on you. You talked about this at the newsletter summit in your talk about IV content, insanely valuable content that people wanna read.

And with the proliferation of newsletters and content everywhere, um, we're kind of in like, I guess the blog 2.0 sort of space. Well, I'll probably be on that now, but just like. Newsletters are essentially the new blogs. They're just hitting people's inboxes. Right? So you need to stand out, you need to be different, you need to have content that resonates and that is well written and well researched [00:06:00] and even has a little bit of personality so you don't sound like, you know, an AI bot.

Yeah. It all comes down to this quality and consistency that he, that he mentions.

[00:06:08] Chenell Basilio: And it kind of reminds me, um, I know you were starting to mention Akash Gupta before we started recording. Mm-hmm. And I was like, stop. We're just gonna hit record. Yeah. We have to start just going, 'cause we're just gonna talk about too many things.

We're we'll have to. Double dipp back on. But Akash Gupta always talks about creating content for the internal share. So like what is that one piece of content that somebody in an organization is going to share with all of their team and people in other organizations in the same kind of team? And so I think Lenny has done that super well with the product space.

Mm-hmm. In terms of just the marketplaces, like anyone who works at any of those companies on the product teams or even growth or. Anything really would probably read that. And so I'm sure that just like catapulted his success in terms of paid subscribers too.

[00:06:52] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, totally. Um, I think the, the interesting thing he says is, wow, I can't believe there's a million product managers kind of goes on to say like, [00:07:00] you know, my, my audience is actually made up of much wider, now roughly half our product managers, but over a quarter our founders and the rest, um, our mix of adjacent functions like engineers, designers, growth marketers, et cetera.

So it is interesting that. He took this somewhat niche kind of area or category of product marketing and product managers, um, and, and has kind of spun that off into this sort of larger ethos. And he even talks about a little bit about that, how he's like, I can't just write about product management for the rest of my life.

So he, you know, he, he kind of touches on subjects sort of all around that. And in doing so, he mentions as well that he's basically found his icky guy, which is like doing something. He's passionate about that the world needs that he can get paid to do and that he's good at. And so like, it's like this combination, this Venn diagram where he is right in the middle and he's publishing about that, and that's kind of like, damn, that's the ideal, right?

[00:07:50] Chenell Basilio: A hundred percent. Yeah. And honestly, if you can write 36 posts about one topic, I think you're onto something because most people quit or get bored after. 5, [00:08:00] 10, 15. Mm-hmm. And then they're like, Ugh, I'm gonna jump ship and move on. But he even said, I forget where it was in this piece, but somewhere along the line he realized like, I don't wanna just write about product the entire time.

Like he knew, he had the forethought to think like, I might get bored of just writing about product and like these very, uh, technical topics. He's like, so I'd love to expand it a little bit. Still have product as like the base, but product touches so many. So many pieces of mm-hmm. Every business. So like, it makes sense to talk about all of these other things as well.

And his audience is interested in that. And I, after a while, I think he's written about so many things that like he can just expand to other topics. And when someone asks him about something foundational, he can just link back to those old pieces.

[00:08:39] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Yeah, it, it really helps. Um, I mean he's, he started the podcast too of, in summer of 2022, I believe it was, or June of 2022.

And so just doing that, building the relationships and building out your network as well, talking to you interesting people in the product space, the tech space. But then even just more so talking like he's got, he's had people [00:09:00] who've like talked about mindset and you know, just these things again, that sort of surround.

What you would need to do to be a successful product manager, but aren't actually like necessarily directly about being a product, a successful product manager. So position himself really nicely to kinda be like, yes, I'm an expert on this, but you know, I'm also gonna share all this other information that's going to help people in this space.

[00:09:21] Chenell Basilio: I remember when I did research for CJ Gustafson recently mm-hmm. Of mostly metrics. Uh, he actually was talking about how Lenny was somebody he looked up to and he linked out to this piece where Lenny was talking about, uh, he thinks of his content like a puzzle. And so he tries to fill in the gaps every week.

So he'll think of like the holistically as a puzzle, fill in the gaps, and then over time, like he's gonna have to go back and like, rework that puzzle piece and maybe make the edges sharper, you know, rework it a little bit, but it's still. Part of a bigger puzzle. And so he said, my job is to slowly but surely fill this board in and help you through every challenge, decision and opportunity you'll face.

And I just like, I love that. It's just such a straightforward [00:10:00] thing. Mm-hmm. Um, it actually reminds me of the roast we did for Darren Smith.

[00:10:03] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Right.

[00:10:04] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. So Darren has a. Live glossary of all the topics he's going to write about, and he's just like linking to them as he writes them. Yeah. And this just reminds me of the same concept.

[00:10:13] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. It's, it's really cool. You're, you're filling in the, the spaces as you go. So it's like this, um, like, like Darren said, it's like this living document and mm-hmm. Really going back and refining that, it takes a lot of dili, like, not diligence, but like, you have to be pretty dedicated to go back. Refine articles, make them better.

Um, but it's all just part of creating this really high quality, um, product. And that's what, again, that's what Lenny has done and that he's earned every right to get this 100 or 1 million subscriber count. And again, going back to the quality and consistency can harp on it, but it, it all revolves around that.

[00:10:52] Chenell Basilio: Yeah, totally. Should we do like a abbreviated version of how he got to 1 million? Yeah. Or how we think he did?

[00:10:59] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, [00:11:00] let's do it. Well, I mean he's outright said it like he shared. Um, see I've, I've got an image right here from his 500 K post and I'm assuming that the stuff he did to get to 500 k is gonna be pretty in line with what he did to get to a million people always ask how I got the newsletter, got going with the newsletter.

So here it is. And he is got like first 100 subscribers, next 1000, next 10,000 and so on. And so we can go over. What you wrote about. We can go over this. Um, because he's not, he doesn't go into, into a ton of detail with this. Um, but he says he mentions a few things that you talk about, like the first round review article, his medium post on Andrew Chen's blog, or his medium post and posting on Andrew Chen's blog and stuff.

[00:11:36] Chenell Basilio: Um, yeah, I mean, the first couple, the first few thousand is pretty straightforward. Yeah. Uh, my research and his corroborates the same thing. Yeah. Like, I think what he did was just. He wrote that first piece on Medium. Um, he got, I think he said he got his first hundred subscribers from that.

[00:11:51] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.

[00:11:51] Chenell Basilio: And if I remember correctly, he didn't have an email capture at first and then he realized he needed one and he added it later.

[00:11:57] Dylan Redekop: That's right. And Eddie Schlater did the same thing. [00:12:00]

[00:12:00] Chenell Basilio: Yep.

[00:12:01] Dylan Redekop: These two, these two guys who've like grown these massive audiences and, and businesses. But, uh, everybody's gotta learn. Yeah, you gotta learn,

[00:12:08] Chenell Basilio: you gotta learn. I don't think he thought it was gonna take off. It was probably more of him just synthesizing the last seven or nine years of his.

Career. So,

[00:12:16] Dylan Redekop: well, like you said, he, he wanted, he had quit, uh, or had left, I'm not sure if he quit on his own volition, but he had left Airbnb and wanted to start his own company and so he thought, man, what did I learn at, I should probably like synthesize, like you said, uh, what I learned while seven years as a product manager at Airbnb.

And so he is like, I guess I'll just write it down and like. Flesh it out and then I have nowhere to post it. I don't have a website, so I'm just gonna post it on medium. And sure enough he did that and obviously the medium algorithm picked that up and um, it got quite popular. It did really well. And one thing he wrote about too was that was like signal.

He's like, oh, people are interested in this. Maybe I should. Go, you know, we should go down this rabbit hole a little bit more and write about it a little bit more. And you know, he, like you mentioned, he guest posted on [00:13:00] um, first round review, which was Andrew Chen's blog, and Andrew Chen, I think was a friend of his as well, or an acquaintance who was kind of encouraging him to do so.

Um, and he just kind of snowballed from there. That's how he got to kind of his first a thousand subscribers, I believe. Roughly.

[00:13:13] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. So he wrote two guest posts. He wrote one on, uh, first round and then one on Andrew Chen's blog separately. Right. Sorry. They're two

[00:13:19] Dylan Redekop: separate things. Yeah. My mistake.

[00:13:20] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. And those together, those got him to a thousand.

I only remember this 'cause it was in my talk Yes. A couple weeks ago. Oh, okay. Right. So I like had been going back through it. Yeah. I thought that was interesting. And it's, it's just another reminder of like guest posts work. Like you don't have to know an Andrew Chen or know this larger VC outlet like you can.

Keep going with like getting 50 subscribers, a hundred subscribers, like that's good enough. Mm-hmm. Like, just keep getting your writing out there in front of other audiences. It's so important. Uh, I think it's such a great way to get started.

[00:13:50] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, it is. And I mean, CJ did that too, who you discovered, right?

That was and exactly. And he got paid to do it. So like there's, there's perks too to writing good quality [00:14:00] content and sharing it with other people and guest posting, so, so that was the first 1000. Yeah.

[00:14:04] Chenell Basilio: So those were the two ones. Yep. First 1000 and then after that next 10,000, he said writing useful stuff every week for nine months.

Yeah. And tweeting, summaries of it

[00:14:13] Dylan Redekop: and word of mouth. Okay.

[00:14:13] Chenell Basilio: Lenny, that's like way too simplified.

[00:14:15] Dylan Redekop: Right? So like that, that's, I mean, but in the gist of it is that's what he did. Right? Writing useful stuff comes down to that quality, consistency. 'cause it was for every week for nine months. So he's like, okay, I'm doing this and.

Tweeting summaries of it. So that's like publish or, uh, broadcasting it like to an audience that he's actually writing this stuff. He's not just relying on people in Substack to find it. So he's sharing it. Um, and then he's, um, leveraging word of mouth. So he's the useful stuff. Creates the word of mouth.

'cause people are like, wow, this is really good. I'm gonna share it.

[00:14:44] Chenell Basilio: I found his like Twitter flywheel, essentially. Oh, okay. When I wrote the deep dive. Yeah.

[00:14:48] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.

[00:14:48] Chenell Basilio: So he used to write multiple threads all the time. Some days I found he wrote two threads in a single day. So like he was not just going lightly on Twitter, he was going hard.

Like trying to make this work after a certain point.

[00:14:59] Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm. [00:15:00] Um,

[00:15:00] Chenell Basilio: so he would take his longer form pieces and he would turn them into threads, which is how I grew in the beginning too. Yeah. Like it works. Yeah. Or it did work. I'm sure you have to do it somewhere else now. But I mean, he was, there are screenshots on the, the deep dive if you wanna go see them.

But there are just like his threads, were getting like 500 plus likes, 200, 300 bookmarks, like retweets all over the place. Yeah. Um. At the end of it, he would just link back to that newsletter piece. And so this is obviously at a time when Twitter wasn't like playing links and like letting you get reach even if you had something in there, which they don't really do anymore.

Um, but he was taking advantage of that opportunity at the time and it clearly worked.

[00:15:40] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, yeah. No, it worked very well. So he's downplaying when he says, um, you know, write you some stuff and tweet about it, and it's like, yes, to sum it up, that's what he was doing. Um, but he was, I. He was really leveraging the viral nature of what he Right.

Was writing about and of the Twitter algorithm. So yeah, [00:16:00] whether or not you could do that now is probably debatable. Um, but there's still other platforms that will surface this stuff that much more, whether you're using LinkedIn, um, which is still probably an okay algorithm to, to go viral gro an audience.

But, um, I think the whole point of this is reading consistently and like sharing it consistently all the time. Yeah. And so people are finding out about it.

[00:16:19] Chenell Basilio: And so even we were just talking about those pieces where he would go get data from other folks that worked at these companies. And so not only published that post on his newsletter, he would then write a thread about it and in the thread he would tag every single person that gave him data.

And of course those people were like, I look great 'cause I gave him this awesome information. Let me retweet this. Yeah. And so it just kept going and going. And then of course at the end it linked back to that piece. And it was just like a great flywheel, especially if you can get quality data from.

People who have experience in the space. So yeah, super smart what he is done. Uh, I don't think you can do that with every single newsletter necessarily, but I think he stumbled into something really smart.

[00:16:58] Dylan Redekop: And, and then when he [00:17:00] got to his next 100,000, in his words, he continued to write useful stuff every week, four years.

And he tweeted about it and leveraged word of mouth. So again, not, um, not crazy insightful, but um, he just basically, this is his way of saying. I found something that worked and I just kept doing it and sure enough it was working for him. So, um, I guess why reinvent the wheel if it ain't broke? Don't fix it.

Throw every cliche at the book, at him here. He, he's, he was doing something and it was working, so he kept doing it.

[00:17:29] Chenell Basilio: Yep. 100%. Yeah. Um,

[00:17:31] Dylan Redekop: but then there was an inflection point.

[00:17:33] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. Are you referring to his paid newsletter?

[00:17:34] Dylan Redekop: No. Uh, we can talk about that. That was an inflection point for revenue. Oh, you mean revenue, you mean recommendations, but Yes.

Yeah. Yes. In 2022 substack. Yeah. Launched this lovely feature Substack recommendations.

[00:17:45] Chenell Basilio: Well, let's be honest, it was like honestly revolutionary at the time. Yeah. 'cause newsletters are notoriously hard to discover. Yeah. Unless you are out there on these other places like social platforms. Um, so recommendations were just like incredible.

I think over [00:18:00] time it's getting watered down a little bit 'cause they're just so overdone.

[00:18:03] Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:04] Chenell Basilio: Still works, still can be a good growth lever, but I think you have to be a little bit smarter about, you know, cleaning up your list after using them. But yes, he has no shame in telling people that as soon as Substack launched the recommendations, he had hundreds of people recommending him.

Um, and then. He just started growing from there.

[00:18:23] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. I think he's even said he's got over a thousand people recommending his newsletter, so

[00:18:28] Chenell Basilio: Well, I could, we could probably go see it, right?

[00:18:29] Dylan Redekop: Oh, can you? I'll look it up. Keep talking. Okay.

[00:18:31] Chenell Basilio: Yeah, go look.

[00:18:32] Dylan Redekop: So I guess my point is, um, he, he, he refers to, in his writeup when he's kind of reflecting on this, he refers to.

Recommendations as word of mouth, right? Because you know, essentially that is what it is. People are recommending you and they're not gonna recommend you if you, if your writing is crap, if you're, if your, if your newsletter sucks, um, even if you collab with 'em, they might recommend it. You might get some subscribers, but you're not gonna retain those subscribers.

Also, if you're newsletter sucks, um, the, the [00:19:00] word of mouth is. Is really important. But again, if your newsletter sucks and your quality of content is bad, it doesn't matter. Substack recommended recommendation feature will work, especially in the short term. Lenny was writing really good stuff that people wanted to read, and so more and more people were recommending him and it was just again, another flywheel where.

Great quality leads to more recommendations, leads to more subscribers, leads to more people recommending him, leads to more, you know, it's just like this constant evolution.

[00:19:26] Chenell Basilio: So he actually wrote it in his 1 million piece. He said, today, over 5,000 other newsletters recommend my newsletter. Mm.

[00:19:31] Dylan Redekop: I was a little off

[00:19:32] Chenell Basilio: without it.

If you extrapolate from the trajectory beforehand, I'd maybe be at 500,000 subscribers. I would probably say he'd be closer to like three 50 mm. Like he had good trajectory, but that doesn't always sustain the whole time. So, no. I dunno. Could be wrong. I mean, he did launch podcasts, which has definitely helped as well.

So,

[00:19:50] Dylan Redekop: yeah, no, it, yeah, it has. And I, I mentioned that too as kind of like a, sort of a content flywheel. Um, where I think this was probably, this probably definitely helped in [00:20:00] discovery, especially when you started publishing on YouTube. So you're gonna get viewers who are maybe more. Video aligned or people who prefer to consume content on video, like on YouTube.

And so in June, 2022 when he started publishing his podcast, I don't think he was publishing to YouTube right away, but it wasn't too long after where he started pub publishing the podcast episodes to YouTube video version, and now he's got 282,000 subscribers on YouTube. Um, and you know that like some people found him there and then, you know, went to subscribe to his.

Newsletter. I can't say exactly how many, but it's just this flywheel effect of like, I'm getting big on one channel, therefore I'm kind of growing on another channel. And then they just kind of both feed each other and, um, it's smart and it's, uh, I definitely think the podcast has helped him grow.

[00:20:45] Chenell Basilio: Oh, a thousand percent.

[00:20:46] Dylan Redekop: Uh, I'll let you comment on that, but there's one other interesting point about his, um, his podcast that he mentions too. In terms of revenue?

[00:20:52] Chenell Basilio: Well, yeah, I, that's what I was gonna ask, say. Oh, okay. Because I think he said at some point, I don't know if I have this, the right quote, but I remember him saying at some point the, the podcast is [00:21:00] making more Yeah.

Than the newsletter in terms of sponsorships and, uh, brand deals. So,

[00:21:04] Dylan Redekop: and it's about wild. Yes. And, and he was

[00:21:06] Chenell Basilio: already making over seven figures at that point when he launched a podcast. Uhhuh, from what I gather, Uhhuh, he, he doesn't really like talk necessarily about it, but that's crazy. So that means.

Almost overnight. He added, he doubled that

[00:21:18] Dylan Redekop: and you know how long it takes him to, he, he compared the time and effort into, into these two things, right? So he puts in way more time and effort into publishing a written piece for his weekly post. Um, and even if he's doing the guest post, which I don't think we've talked, talked too much about, well, we talked a little bit about it, but when he does the guest post, he still works with that guest.

Author, um, to refine the piece, to go through five or six different drafts and revisions and stuff. So there's a bit of his time sunk into it. Lots of time spent with the writing. It doesn't make as much money as a podcast. His podcast, he says, takes maybe about five, six hours a week to do, including like the research, the recording of it, the post.

Um, and yes, he has some contractors and freelancers he works with, but essentially he, [00:22:00] what he's saying is the podcast takes way less time and makes way more money. So it's like a nice little. Problem to have, I guess

[00:22:06] Chenell Basilio: 1000%. Um, yeah, I, we actually, we didn't talk about the guest post thing. We talked about it on, in terms of him writing a guest post, but not him contracting.

That's true. Yes. On people to write for him.

[00:22:17] Dylan Redekop: Okay. Yeah.

[00:22:17] Chenell Basilio: Um,

[00:22:18] Dylan Redekop: let's talk about it, which is

[00:22:19] Chenell Basilio: exciting. I actually learned this morning, Lex Roman wrote a guest post for him. Oh. Sick. Like in the early, early days. Wow.

[00:22:25] Dylan Redekop: Really? Yeah.

[00:22:26] Chenell Basilio: Not just recently. So Lexi apparently started the newsletter, um, at the same time as Lenny, and they're like, well, I'm kind of bummed that I stopped writing this because I could have been, I don't know, like that somewhere near there, but yeah,

[00:22:39] Dylan Redekop: yeah, yeah.

That's. That's true. Oh, that's funny. Okay. But anyway, I thought that was funny. That is funny.

[00:22:45] Chenell Basilio: Um,

[00:22:48] Dylan Redekop: did we mention about, yeah, so the guest posting in, in terms of why Lenny does guest posts?

[00:22:54] Chenell Basilio: No, go for it.

[00:22:55] Dylan Redekop: Okay. Well, he, he basically like realized pretty early on that he's gonna publish this [00:23:00] once a week, um, which is 52 editions a year.

And he is like, I can't come up with like 52, you know, high quality, unique insights and lessons on, you know. Product management or whatever, um, in a year, right? For forever in per perpetuity. So he basically was like, I need to bring in other voices. And so Lex being one of them, um, that he, he's brought in.

And so now he says that he brings in guest posts. He didn't really say how often he brings them in, and I should have checked, but whenever he brings in a guest post, uh, a guest author, they go through about five or six drafts, like I mentioned, to refine the content to like the level of quality that Lenny's readers would expect.

And um, now he says that his guest posts are mostly the most popular, um, posts that are on his, that are on his blog. They usually get, um, the most response and that sort of thing. So it's kind of like a, another sort of win-win for Lenny. Lenny, just like the podcast was, guest posts less work. More popular probably drives a little bit more growth and virality [00:24:00] and stuff like that.

So really smart.

[00:24:02] Chenell Basilio: If you get to be the person writing the yes post, you get a lot of new subscribers that I've seen a, at least a handful of people launch a newsletter or at least. They were early on in their journey when they wrote a guest post for Lenny, and then they were able to just like, take off from there because they got in front of that audience.

[00:24:20] Dylan Redekop: Right? Yeah. That would be massive. I mean, getting in front of a million or even like with open rates say 400,000 people is nothing. Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh, that's a decent amount of eyeballs on your stuff and if you do a good job, um, which it sounds like Lenny's not gonna let. You publish in a guest post that isn't, is bound to drive you some, some, uh, new subscribers.

Grow your audience. Yeah.

[00:24:41] Chenell Basilio: And even, uh, being a guest on his podcast, so I know, uh, growth and Reverse Pro member, uh, Ben Williams actually was on Lenny's podcast. Nice. Uh, he's also in the product space and he. He, he knows Lenny just from being in the, in the space. Um, you know, he got on his podcast and that was like a huge win [00:25:00] in terms of just like getting the credibility.

Even, even if you get zero subscribers. Yeah. Just like having that credibility. It's almost like Lenny certified is like,

[00:25:07] Dylan Redekop: yeah.

[00:25:08] Chenell Basilio: Because he has such a good quality newsletter and people trust it as a good outlet. So if you can get on there and, um, be a guest, I think you're, you're doing good.

[00:25:16] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. If you can get, you know, verified on Twitter, like back in the day, this is like Lenny's, basically Lenny's Seal, right?

Yeah.

[00:25:22] Chenell Basilio: You're Lenny, he should have like a little certified seal, get some back links from it. That's right. You know, you could put at like the bottom of your website. Yeah. Certified by Lenny.

[00:25:30] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. That's good. That's good. What are the big takeaways then from, from Lenny's journey? Like what, what are the applicable, um, steps that somebody can take out of his journey and what they could do?

[00:25:42] Chenell Basilio: Yeah, I mean, if, if you ask Lenny, it's just write good content, keep writing good content. Post a couple Twitter threads and take advantage of substack recommendations like that. And you're good, yada,

[00:25:52] Dylan Redekop: yada, yada. You got a million subscribers.

[00:25:55] Chenell Basilio: Do it for six years and Yeah.

[00:25:57] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.

[00:25:57] Chenell Basilio: No, but honestly, I think I'm increasingly [00:26:00] convinced that the name of this game is just sticking with it.

[00:26:03] Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:03] Chenell Basilio: Um, I was talking to Jake Klaus recently, and uh, he was like, I don't have a good growth journey. I was like, you absolutely do. You've been doing this for eight years. Like people don't stick around that long in the same space. Yeah. Like huge.

[00:26:14] Dylan Redekop: And he's like,

[00:26:15] Chenell Basilio: you're right. He's like, and now people are just starting to recognize that, and he's starting to hit that growth trajectory of like escape velocity, if you will.

[00:26:22] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. That's the word that was coming to my mind. Who, and Laura used that word a few times when we interviewed her. It's stick with itness, right? Like, can you stick with this and not just stick with it? Because you can't just be operating with your eyes closed and your blinders on and you know, not realizing that it's not working.

You need those signals that things are working and you need to iterate and, and pivot. When something isn't working. That's what Jay's done, right? Like he started with, uh, I think just a newsletter and then turned it into a podcast and then turned that into a community and then turned it into a YouTube channel.

And like, it's just like he's gone through this evolution as a [00:27:00] creator and look at him now. He's doing, he's doing awesome. He's busy, but he's really grown quite significantly in the last few years, thanks to by and large sticking with it. And Lenny is, is no different.

[00:27:11] Chenell Basilio: Exactly. So I think, uh, takeaways are, uh, yeah, stick with it for six years.

Yeah, I think that's probably the, the minimum where you hit that point. Mm-hmm. Um, unless I was gonna say, unless you're Justin Walsh, but even then, no. Like he was writing on LinkedIn for three, four years before he even started newsletter. So I think there is something to like that five, six year mark, especially for personal brand, solo operator type things, and then put your heart and soul into the content.

[00:27:37] Dylan Redekop: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:37] Chenell Basilio: That's the second one. It's just so key and I don't wanna keep talking about it, but I feel like we need to because people will just, they want the growth hacks, but that is the ultimate growth hack is just. Good content. Mm-hmm. Build relationships, stick with it. What else?

[00:27:52] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, I think that's important.

Kinda like your level of, um, give a shitness as well, like how much do you, do you care about your [00:28:00] content and about your audience and your readers? Um, that, that really kind of matters. That's proven out again in the people we've just discussed, is they care and they care about putting out a good quality product.

So, um, one of my things that I thought that was sort of insightful, quite insightful, I think especially for somebody who's. More towards the beginning of this journey as opposed to kind of the middle, you know, that Lenny's been on. So Lenny talks a lot about job to be done. So figure out the job to be done for your newsletter is Caitlyn Bergens talked about this a lot.

Of course, they're not the only ones. They didn't coin the term, but. Lenny does a, has a great example of essentially what a, what a job to be done for your newsletter looks like. And if you're not familiar with it, I would recommend checking out his 500,000 posts where he basically says like, do your job to be done better than anyone else in the world.

So you gotta figure out what it is, what newsletter, what purpose does your newsletter serve for your audience? He figured that out and then he basically figured out how to do it better than anybody. Else in the world. Um, and two questions I'll just, that he writes here that I'll just share, [00:29:00] um, answer these two questions.

Who exactly is your audience? Think of a specific person, what they, uh, what would they find extremely interesting or useful? And number two is what is your concrete job you're doing for them? Is it entertainment, helping them make money, inspiring them, helping them understand the world or something else?

So kind of start there. Um, I think you touched on this a little bit too, Chenell with your IV content talk, 'cause these kind of buckets are similar, right?

[00:29:25] Chenell Basilio: When you were, when you were, when you were reading those off, I was like, uhoh, are they the same?

[00:29:28] Dylan Redekop: No, they're pretty close. Well, they, they are. Which is good.

I was gonna say you'd wanna resonate with, with somebody like him being the same mindset. So I think you basically had the same, um, gist of those buckets as well when you were writing about. Um, insanely valuable content. So figure out your job to be done was one of my big takeaways from, from Lenny. Um, as well as obviously writing quality and consistent content, you know, the stick with Itness.

Um, one other thing that I think is pretty important is sharing your work publicly. So he did that [00:30:00] and we talked about how much he tweeted, um, even though he kind of. He kind of dumbed it down a little bit by saying, you know, tweeting summaries, but I think you really need to almost uncomfortably share your work.

[00:30:10] Chenell Basilio: I like that. I like the jobs to be done. It's such a, a more tangible way to think about what you're creating and the content you're putting out into the world. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, I mean, it does need to land in one of those buckets, which makes sense. So, I don't know, I'm just a big fan of Lenny's like.

Outlook. And even he's just a calm guy. Mm-hmm. Like if you listen to his podcast, he's just like, he's like my speed. He's like very chill. Yeah. But like super smart, but really chill. Um, and so I resonate with that a lot more than like a, I don't know, hor mozy style, like in your face type thing,

[00:30:39] Dylan Redekop: but. Yeah, I can see that.

I, I agree. And it's not for everybody. Some people need the Hormo Z style in your face. Yep. Like pump you up thing and to each their own. Absolutely. But yeah, Lenny's definitely a little bit more of a laid back guy. He's, he's very, you could just tell by the way he's writing this, like very modest. Um, and I'm assuming too, like I got a hundred ou, I got a million subscribers by just [00:31:00] writing useful stuff, consistently tweeting about it, you know, people liked it and it's like.

It's totally his vibe too, right? He's not gonna be like, here's what I did, this is how, this is how I thought about it. And it's like, you have to do this. And he was just kind of like sharing in a very modest way of how he really like crushed the newsletter game.

[00:31:17] Chenell Basilio: It's funny. Um, and I think he's just easy to recommend 'cause he's such.

You can tell that he cares. Mm-hmm. You can tell that he cares about the content, how valuable it is for his readers.

[00:31:26] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.

[00:31:27] Chenell Basilio: And he, he listens to, um, feedback. So I think that's pretty cool.

[00:31:31] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, and it also helps too, like he's got this sort of circle of content, like that's product manager. Sort of specific, and you'll have those kind of guests on, but then he, he branches out from that.

So it does attract, you know, you could recommend it to just about anybody in a professional setting. And they probably will find something useful out of one of his posts or one of his podcast episodes. Not every single one of them, of course, but um, he just, it has this ability to reach a larger tam, if you will, than just focusing on [00:32:00] one thing.

And not everybody can do that. Um, and I don't think you probably should do that in the beginning. You're probably pretty. Be pretty focused and niche down in the beginning so that you know who you're talking to and what you're talking about. But then as you grow, um, and as Lenny grew, he was able to expand out into these other kind of adjacent categories, if you will, or topics that he knows his readers, um, would be interested in.

[00:32:21] Chenell Basilio: Totally. Um, it reminds me of Sahil Bloom. When he got started. He was writing about finance. Yeah. And then over time he started writing about more other things, more other things. It exploded from there. Definitely more other things. Yes. I can talk really well, can't I? You talk good.

[00:32:35] Dylan Redekop: You talk good.

[00:32:37] Chenell Basilio: SMRT. Yeah.

Um, yeah. So

[00:32:41] Dylan Redekop: yeah, you gotta start, you gotta start focused and then, you know, branch out. Um, in my opinion, it's gonna help, I

[00:32:47] Chenell Basilio: think. Well, I think it's easier too, when it's just easier mentally to like, wrap your head around what you're creating. Mm-hmm. And how much mm-hmm. What to create next. Otherwise you can be like, I'm just gonna write about the sky tomorrow.

Yeah. Or like, you know, something [00:33:00] random.

[00:33:00] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.

[00:33:00] Chenell Basilio: So I think if you can niche down, it just helps you as a writer.

[00:33:04] Dylan Redekop: And you did that from the kind of the beginning too. You were just gonna focus on, you kind of had these parameters set. You're gonna write about. Newsletter operators, newsletter creators who had a 50,000 subscriber audience or larger, it really was like, eh, I kinda wanna write about this person.

But a, they, maybe they're not a newsletter writer or, um, they hadn't hit 50,000 subscribers. Right. And so you did that for a long time and then. Last year you were kinda like, eh, maybe not. And you started writing about people who didn't have 50,000 subscribers because they still had a really powerful growth journey and had a lot of lessons to learn.

Or maybe you wrote about, um, somebody who you're more focused on their audience size, their general, like online presence as opposed to just their newsletter size too. So I think it's, it's important to stay, it's just an example. It reminded me of how you stay kind of focused in the beginning. It is really helpful for you, and it's gonna be helpful to explain what your newsletter is to people, kind of strict to some degree on what you're writing about and what you're talking about.[00:34:00]

And then again, once you gain that steam, gain some traction, write about it for a while, then you can kind of expand out of that realm and. I'm not saying this is a hard rule that everybody has to follow, but it just, I think for the general, um, the general public, this would be a kind of a smart way to go about it.

[00:34:15] Chenell Basilio: Yeah, totally agree. Yeah. Um, well cool. Well, is there anything else you wanted to talk about in terms of Lenny hitting a million?

[00:34:21] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, um, two other really quick takeaways and one we won't go harp on these, but one is to obviously let leverage network effects, so he was able to leverage Substack recommendations.

I I wouldn't even necessarily say that he leveraged it. It's not like he was going out saying, Hey, recommend my newsletter. He was on a platform. That had this opportunity and these network effects. And so, um, he stayed there. He obviously wasn't gonna leave, um, Substack, even if there was, the grass might have been greener elsewhere.

Maybe he could have made more money on subscriptions because Substack takes maybe a larger percentage of your, um, revenue. He stuck with it. He, um, grew rapidly thanks to it. And so I guess keep an eye out [00:35:00] for platforms that you are on and where the network effects can be. I guess leverage or taken advantage of.

So that was kind of one thing that sort of stood out. And the other one, I dunno if, do you want anything to add to that before I go to the next one?

[00:35:13] Chenell Basilio: No, I mean, yeah, pretty much just what you said. Mm-hmm. I think there are always, there's always gonna be a new platform that's, you know, you can take advantage of it when it's new and.

They're not like putting so many ads out or Yeah. Or that kind of thing. And you can get more reach on a platform. Yeah. Especially if you're going like the social media route. Um, so yeah, just keep in mind, and I think honestly Lenny built his newsletter like a product, so he took all of his learnings and he built a gr just a bestselling product.

Yeah. Essentially how meta based on what he had learned. It's so meta, but it's like, you kind of forget it when you read his stuff for a while and then you're like, oh yeah, he's using all of this on the backend.

[00:35:49] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. So

[00:35:50] Chenell Basilio: it's pretty interesting.

[00:35:51] Dylan Redekop: Absolutely. Um, he definitely has taken it as a product, you know, paid subscription model, all of that.

It's like, it's kind of like a SaaS knowledge [00:36:00] product. Mm-hmm. Um, the last point I thought we should bring up is just collaborations again. So we talked about this, but I think we harp on this all the time as well, but he. Knew he couldn't write 52 editions of, you know, a product manage or a, yeah, a product management newsletter every year, all the time in, in perpetuity.

So we started thinking about guest posting relatively early on, and really leverage that. And he found success with it as they've been some of his most popular posts. So, um, don't be afraid to collaborate with people and then just make sure you. Try to find the right people to do that with. Nice. Yeah.

[00:36:35] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. And a couple weeks ago on the podcast, we were talking about, uh, potentially doing like a grow without social course. Mm-hmm. If you will. Mm-hmm. Uh, I got some good feedback on that. So

[00:36:44] Dylan Redekop: yeah, if

[00:36:45] Chenell Basilio: you're interested. Yeah. People just straight up sending me random emails, being like, I read that. I listened to the podcast I wanted.

Nice. So

[00:36:52] Dylan Redekop: nice.

[00:36:52] Chenell Basilio: It's a, a good sign. I think maybe I should set up like a legit landing page for this. Because honestly, every, I feel like every deep dive I [00:37:00] do, I'm like, yep, they use collabs. Yeah, they did cross promos. They were working with other people, doing guest posts. Like I just wish people would, uh, optimize this process and do it better.

So that's why I kind of wanna create that. Well, why don't

[00:37:13] Dylan Redekop: you throw up a teaser presale, uh, landing page link.

[00:37:17] Chenell Basilio: All right. What if we do, I have not made this yet. I know. Growth and reverse.com/oh boy. Let's do slash no social how put an Antisocial. Antisocial. Yeah. That's kind of fun, right? Sure. All right, let's do it.

All right. Growth and reverse.com/antisocial.

[00:37:33] Dylan Redekop: There we go.

[00:37:34] Chenell Basilio: I'll just make it a, uh. A form that they fill out.

[00:37:37] Dylan Redekop: Okay. No presale, like, uh, commerce into it at all?

[00:37:40] Chenell Basilio: No, no, no. Just a wait list form essentially for now, but eventually when it's ready to go, we'll redirect that. Awesome.

[00:37:47] Dylan Redekop: As my voice is starting to cut out.

Cool. Any other, any other parting thoughts, words of wisdom about, uh, Lenny, his journey? I mean, we could probably go on for a while, um, but we should probably wrap it at some point.

[00:37:58] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. I mean, I think. [00:38:00] I'm just curious like where this goes from here. Mm. Because he's just been steadily growing. Like does he hit 2 million in the next year?

[00:38:05] Dylan Redekop: I mean, it's one of those things where you are growing because you're growing kind of thing. I think the size of your audience is just like, yeah, oh, this guy's got a million subscribers. He is bound to be writing something that people like and that I should subscribe to. So just by like. The virtue of the size of your audience alone and subscriber list alone, you're gonna grow.

Um, I'm, I'm interested on in what, what this looks like in five years. Is he still gonna be publishing? Is he sold? Has he, you know, what, what does that, what does that look like?

[00:38:35] Chenell Basilio: Is there like a, a Lenny's newsletter for marketing? Is there an mm-hmm. Lenny's newsletter for. Does, like, does he take this playbook and like redo it?

Yeah. In some other niche and let somebody else like run it?

[00:38:46] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. I don't know. My gut says he probably, he probably doesn't, 'cause he seems like more of a, not that he's not ambitious, but he seems like he values. His lifestyle, um, the way it goes. And he even [00:39:00] mentions in his post, he's like, yeah, even when I'm writing an article that takes like up to 30 hours of research and writing to publish it.

Um, and then I'm spending, you know, maybe six to 10 hours on a podcast that's still just a 40 hour work week and he's making a good amount of money. He doesn't have any full-time employees. He does have contractors and freelancers that he works with, um, to help expedite all this stuff. But at the same time, I think he.

Doesn't want to be like constantly managing people. Um, so my guess is he's gonna keep it. I, I would assume pretty simple in this, in this respect.

[00:39:33] Chenell Basilio: I'm just wondering, like if somebody approaches him and says like, all right Lenny, we're gonna buy this. You have a three year off ramp,

[00:39:38] Dylan Redekop: right?

[00:39:39] Chenell Basilio: Teach somebody else how to do this in another, another vertical.

[00:39:41] Dylan Redekop: I dunno.

[00:39:42] Chenell Basilio: It could be interesting. It could be. I doubt he would, but

[00:39:45] Dylan Redekop: we're gonna offer that be an interesting playbook, Lenny's newsletter. And you're no longer the face of it, but it's gonna, it's

[00:39:49] Chenell Basilio: like the, the new industry dive, but Lenny's dive,

[00:39:52] Dylan Redekop: that's the thing I see. That's part of the problem with personal brands, right?

And personal newsletters is if you do have an exit plan, you need to kind of pivot that brand, [00:40:00] um, from your face and your name. If. If that is the case, if that's what you wanna do.

[00:40:04] Chenell Basilio: Well, Craig's list. Angie's list.

[00:40:06] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, I

[00:40:07] Chenell Basilio: think, pardon? I don't if Craig's still running it.

[00:40:08] Dylan Redekop: I was gonna say the difference there though is that nobody ever knew what Craig looked like, and no one really cared about Craig.

They just cared about, you know, the application. In our day and age where people have social profiles and they've got YouTube and TikTok and, and, um, audio podcasts. There's just so much more personality and person with the brand. It's with a personal brand that I think it's just that much harder to kind of exit something that you've really built up based on your face and your name and all your thoughts and opinions and experiences, right?

That stuff is really hard to. Shoot over to somebody else to take over. So if people are coming for your unique, you know, like think about like a comedian. A comedian isn't just be like, Hey, I'm retiring, but this guy over here, he's going to start doing my bits. He's gonna try to, you know, match my comedy vibe and he's gonna take over my tour.

Hope you're all okay with that. It's like, no, no one's gonna like, wanna hear, want sign up to go see. Um, uh,

[00:40:58] Chenell Basilio: yeah.

[00:40:59] Dylan Redekop: You know what I mean? Like, [00:41:00] it's, it's just, uh, it's something you have to really be thoughtful about and I don't think it's as easy as just, um. Hiring somebody and training them. But some, in some situations, that could be the case.

[00:41:08] Chenell Basilio: I don't know. It's fun to think about. It is the possibilities. Well, this is fun. Yeah. Um, it's fun. Going back through his story and seeing what he is doing now,

[00:41:18] Dylan Redekop: do you think he would ever, um, join us either on the podcast or in the community?

[00:41:22] Chenell Basilio: He doesn't do podcasts.

[00:41:24] Dylan Redekop: He has one, but he doesn't do them. He doesn't guest.

[00:41:26] Chenell Basilio: He does not do them anymore.

[00:41:28] Dylan Redekop: Okay. All right. I'm gonna work on it. Yeah. We'll see

[00:41:30] Chenell Basilio: if anybody in the audience knows Lenny. Let me know. Yeah. See if maybe, uh, I don't know. Gotta work something out.

[00:41:35] Dylan Redekop: He wasn't at the Newsletter Marketing Summit, was he?

[00:41:37] Chenell Basilio: I don't think he did. Goes to anything like that.

[00:41:39] Dylan Redekop: Yeah. Yeah.

He would probably get accosted and like,

[00:41:43] Chenell Basilio: lady, you gotta

[00:41:44] Dylan Redekop: come on my podcast. Or you gotta, yeah. Yeah. Doesn't need the spotlight. Cool. Well, um, if people have been listening to this long, maybe we should, uh, give a shout to Growth Reverse Pro Community. And just a quick heads up of like, yeah, what's going on there?

[00:41:56] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. So the growth and reverse pro community, if [00:42:00] you haven't heard us ramble about this yet, uh, we put together a paid community for people growing newsletters. It's very straightforward, uh, but we do things like get on a call and spend an hour talking about sponsorships and nerding out about how to better or grow your newsletter or use LinkedIn to grow or yeah.

Swaps or anything like that. Started having some, uh, in-person events at conferences. Mm-hmm. Which is fun.

[00:42:23] Dylan Redekop: Yep.

[00:42:23] Chenell Basilio: Um, and then we have other creators come in. So we've had people like, uh, Justin Moore, uh, Dave and his wife Marson Klein are coming into the community soon. That's

[00:42:32] Dylan Redekop: right.

[00:42:32] Chenell Basilio: And, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm pumped.

I, this is like my favorite place. Yeah. So if you are looking to grow a newsletter and want some other people around you doing the same thing, bounce questions off each other, get feedback, uh, just see how other people are doing it, you can go to growth in reverse.com/pro and check it out. It is application only, so you.

Sadly, if you just started your newsletter or don't have a ton of experience, uh, maybe wait a couple months

[00:42:57] Dylan Redekop: mm-hmm.

[00:42:57] Chenell Basilio: And try again. But, um, yeah, I [00:43:00] just wanted to create a place where people who are actively working on these kinds of things are in there talking to each other and able to get ideas. That's the whole premise behind it.

[00:43:09] Dylan Redekop: Ideas, feedback, um, has been huge. Like if you're not sure, you know, updating your landing page or you're tweaking your design or you wanna update a welcome sequence, like all that stuff people are sharing in the community and getting like almost instant feedback on from a bunch of people who are doing the same thing so they've got actual experience to share.

Right. So it's a really. A cool place. The vibe is, I'm not just seeing that 'cause I'm, um, a part of this, but the vibe is really cool. The people in there are so helpful and so kind and so generous with their, uh, feedback and their time. So I highly recommend checking it out.

[00:43:41] Chenell Basilio: Yeah. And when you join, the fun thing you get access to immediately is a link to book a call with me mm-hmm.

And jump on a call and, uh, we have a little welcome call. See if I can give you some quick wins.

[00:43:51] Dylan Redekop: Yeah.

[00:43:52] Chenell Basilio: And or just walk you through, uh, how to best use the community. Um, yeah, that's pretty much it. So I'm excited. And, uh, hope you'll [00:44:00] consider joining.

[00:44:00] Dylan Redekop: Yeah, come hang out with us.

[00:44:01] Chenell Basilio: All right, until next time. See you.

[00:44:03] Dylan Redekop: We'll see you soon.